|  | Topic : popping |  |
| | | gdp | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 13/03/2013 | | Posts | : | 136 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Apr 2013 - 16:12 Post title : popping | | | ...All these birds pop on decel, but, in general, does it indicate a lean running condition?...
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| | | tigerbrew | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 08/11/2011 | | Posts | : | 100 | | Location | : | Bridlington, East Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 23 Apr 2013 - 18:23 Post title : Re: popping (Re: gdp) | | | Not sure at all if this is the case with the Bird but most fuel injected engines if the engine speed on overrun is above a certain speed and on cars its about 1300 rpm, less with bikes, the injectors are swithed off until the throttle is re-opened or the engine speed falls below this threshold when the injectors are turned on again in anticipation of a tickover or slow speed running.
This is a way of saving fuel so if you are throttle off down a long hill there should be no fuel being injected an your engine is just a compressor until you grab another handfull.
Will stand to be corrected of course.
| That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is not that so?.
Four Wheels Move The Body, Two Wheels Move The Soul. 
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| | | TBRider | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 21/10/2011 | | Posts | : | 834 | | Location | : | Foothills, The Mountains, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Apr 2013 - 19:31 Post title : Re: popping (Re: gdp) | | | Question revisited; No, lean pop is a whole different monster. The decel pop comes from the Air Injection System. It can be eliminated some what by plugging the SAI but you'll never get it all out. With the addition of the Power Commander, removal of the Cat with a bypass, you'll get about 98% of it eliminated.
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| | | Matador | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 40 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 13 May 2013 - 10:49 Post title : Re: popping (Re: gdp) | | | Try modding the air box and turn off the sai in the ecu , that helps and does the same as p/com.
I'm working on a map at the moment which will do the same thing , I'll put up the details once i test it.
Cheers
Matador
| It's more FUN !! riding a SLOW bike FAST !! Than riding A FAST bike SLOW !!!
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| | | Reever | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 07/11/2010 | | Posts | : | 47 | | Location | : | Brisbane, Australia |
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| | Posted : 13 May 2013 - 11:22 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Matador) | | | I like the decel pop on mine especially when going through tunnels
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| | | mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 13 May 2013 - 11:37 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Reever) | | |
Reever wrote:
I like the decel pop on mine especially when going through tunnels |
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...and small quiet villages, payback time for the Sunday morning lawnmower users.
Although, I don't get as much since the BB was fitted .
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
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| | | TBRider | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 21/10/2011 | | Posts | : | 834 | | Location | : | Foothills, The Mountains, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 05:14 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Matador) | | | Do not modify the Airbox! The SAI is not activated or operating on most TB's. Plug the tube that exits into the Airbox, off the valve under the left hand side cover. Tuning with a Power Commander V removes most of the pop.
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| | | Dougl | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 13/07/2012 | | Posts | : | 544 | | Location | : | Reno, Nevada, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 05:56 Post title : Re: popping (Re: TBRider) | | | Bikes without sai pop on decel. Like my tbird or my previous R3, both with tors. When you put freer flowing exhaust on it runs lean. On hard decel at it's lean enough so it doesn't combust in the cylinder but does so in the pipes.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 14:51 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Dougl) | | | yeah, definitely not SAI because only the first year even has SAI hardware. And even then it's supposedly turned off by default. But the last few years they don't even have SAI plumbing on them at all. Story goes that triumph built the bike with SAI like the other bikes thinking it would need it. But in testing they found the bike ran so clean they never enabled it and decided to drop it altogether in the second year of production i believe.
Theres a post in the tuning forum somewhere that Dizze mentioned certian blocks in the fuel map of his custom tune that was enriched to got rid of the popping. If you can find that and compare the cells with the tune before that change you could determine the % and do that to both maps in whatever tune you are using and possibly stop the popping. I believe it is in blocks with throttle off which would make sense since it happens on hard decel. Mine is 1700/tors and now using the tors map and i get zero pop unless i decel really hard and even then it's minimal.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | Rachael7 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 17/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 511 | | Location | : | Greenfield, MA, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 15:20 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Reever) | | |
Reever wrote:
I like the decel pop on mine especially when going through tunnels |
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2nd that, I like it. Just out of curiosity, why is everyone so anxious to get rid of decel popping? Is it just the sense that it's not right in some way? Or is it bad for the bike somehow? I personally like the burbbling of a bike under engine braking. On the stock TB, it's pretty muted, with the cat and all, but it's still there, and still nice, imho.
| 2012 Thunderbird 1600, Short TORS, Triumph performance filter, TORs tune, Longhaul solo seat, Highway Hawk tubular solo rack, Dart flyscreen, engine bars, highway pegs, Clearwater Darla driving lights, custom flash-to-pass switch, Hagon 2810 rears, Thunderbike fork caps, Custom rear sets
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| | | Dougl | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/07/2012 | | Posts | : | 544 | | Location | : | Reno, Nevada, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 15:52 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Rachael7) | | | Yeah. With the short TORs and cat, you can't even hear it. I could never get rid of it with my Rocket, which maybe sounded cool to some but it was like mini explosions - annoying. The culprit was the lower rows of the L tables. With Dizzies tune, which eliminates the L tables, you should be able to tune this out on a dyno in the F tables. You need to put load on it at zero and small throttle openings. They also do this pretty well with the Power Commander.
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| | | Dougl | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/07/2012 | | Posts | : | 544 | | Location | : | Reno, Nevada, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 15:53 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Rachael7) | | |
Rachael7 wrote:
Reever wrote:
I like the decel pop on mine especially when going through tunnels |
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2nd that, I like it. Just out of curiosity, why is everyone so anxious to get rid of decel popping? Is it just the sense that it's not right in some way? Or is it bad for the bike somehow? I personally like the burbbling of a bike under engine braking. On the stock TB, it's pretty muted, with the cat and all, but it's still there, and still nice, imho. |
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It's not bad for the bike. Burbling is one thing but explosions are another.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 15:54 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Rachael7) | | |
Rachael7 wrote:
2nd that, I like it. Just out of curiosity, why is everyone so anxious to get rid of decel popping? Is it just the sense that it's not right in some way? Or is it bad for the bike somehow? I personally like the burbbling of a bike under engine braking. On the stock TB, it's pretty muted, with the cat and all, but it's still there, and still nice, imho. |
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Why do some people not like eating fish? Different strokes. I hate popping. Thankfully mine doesn't to any degree worth noting. That said, "burbbling" i don't consider popping and i don't mind that tho even there if i had the choice i'd probably pass on that too. For me a bike that doesn't make any random types of noise, just smooth even exhaust gives me a feel of being more solid and better running. regardless of what it means mechanically i just feel better when it's like that. Another thing i don't like is loudness. I ran catless for a while for the power, but after a time it began grating on me and i went back. Much happier now. To me the stock bike's sound with a bit more volume, which is what you get with tors, is just right.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | Rachael7 | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 17/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 511 | | Location | : | Greenfield, MA, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 16:19 Post title : Re: popping (Re: daz) | | | Fair enough - taste is taste. I guess I like a little roughness in some areas of a machine... character, for me. I see your perspective though.
| 2012 Thunderbird 1600, Short TORS, Triumph performance filter, TORs tune, Longhaul solo seat, Highway Hawk tubular solo rack, Dart flyscreen, engine bars, highway pegs, Clearwater Darla driving lights, custom flash-to-pass switch, Hagon 2810 rears, Thunderbike fork caps, Custom rear sets
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 21 May 2013 - 17:34 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Rachael7) | | | By the way, back in the 70's i was a huge fan of 2 strokes. The one thing that drove me nuts tho were all those wacky decel sounds. Good god ! Moreso the jerkiness in the feel during decel that was part of that. But i lived with it because i was so in love with 2 strokes. One day if i find a house i can afford i plan on finding a old suzuki triple or possibly a RD in as mint a condition as i can find and make it my special occasion ride.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 May 2013 - 16:04 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Dougl) | | |
Dougl wrote:
Yeah. With the short TORs and cat, you can't even hear it. I could never get rid of it with my Rocket, which maybe sounded cool to some but it was like mini explosions - annoying. The culprit was the lower rows of the L tables. With Dizzies tune, which eliminates the L tables, you should be able to tune this out on a dyno in the F tables. You need to put load on it at zero and small throttle openings. They also do this pretty well with the Power Commander. |
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Well, I at first, did add some fuel after the dyno runs, at the advice of the tuner. In this tune's case, it is lean backfire. Not enough fuel as it backs down between 2100 and idle at the 1 and 2 degree throttle angles. It is easy enough. Just find that block of cells in the F-table and I used F5 key to look at the individual graph lines there.
I could see the slump in the blue (?) lines. So, I just worked it and F5 peeked until I had lifted and smoothed those blue slumps.
Yet, I like in tunnels and it was much admired on the drag in Sturgis. I left in little bit.....so shoot me. 
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 00:51 Post title : Re: popping (Re: DizzE) | | | Had my bike dynoed last week. I am using a PC5. I don't know if it matters but the ECU has the 1600 tune in it and I currently have a 1700. have some nasty decel pop that is getting on my nerves. After the run I took the bike for a ride and it was no better. The tech added fuel to decel and I still have it. So I saw this old post and I want to show it to the tech when I go back next week. Hopefully this will be the cure. If any of you have something to add then please do
| | Post edited by rayglo on 10 May 2020 - 01:03 |
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 02:21 Post title : Re: popping (Re: rayglo) | | | What about stock fuel injectors? just guessing.
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 02:59 Post title : Re: popping (Re: AZCactus) | | | I didn't ask for nor was I advised to change them. The bike always had the pop after my first set of pipes and decat.
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 03:18 Post title : Re: popping (Re: rayglo) | | | DizzE, another member MIA since 2016....
Ray, do you still have the exhaust air injectors? Forget what it's called, located under left side cover.
I still have it, but plugging/removing it was a solution for some here. (Yes, still have the pop on decel, too.)
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 06:25 Post title : Re: popping (Re: rayglo) | | | rayglo wrote:
Had my bike dynoed last week. I am using a PC5. I don't know if it matters but the ECU has the 1600 tune in it and I currently have a 1700. have some nasty decel pop that is getting on my nerves. After the run I took the bike for a ride and it was no better. The tech added fuel to decel and I still have it. So I saw this old post and I want to show it to the tech when I go back next week. Hopefully this will be the cure. If any of you have something to add then please do
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Ray the 1700 tune is quite different, even the timing is different, you should have a stock 1700 tune put in the ecu and a 1700 tune from Dynojet in the PCV, but your tuner should know all this, is he competent? Did he dynotune the stock ECU or the PCV? The PCV will override the fueling if it is connected but that's it unless you have other options fitted.
Injectors are the same.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
| | Post edited by Leethal on 10 May 2020 - 06:25 |
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 09:40 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Ray the 1700 tune is quite different, even the timing is different, you should have a stock 1700 tune put in the ecu and a 1700 tune from Dynojet in the PCV, but your tuner should know all this, is he competent? Did he dynotune the stock ECU or the PCV? The PCV will override the fueling if it is connected but that's it unless you have other options fitted.
Injectors are the same. |
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Lee, I couldn't have said it better.
BTW. I never understod why ppl., use PCV, when you can do all this on Tune ECU, for free, and save the money for the PCV.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 14:21 Post title : Re: popping (Re: MotorMac) | | | MM if you are referring to the SAI, My bike dose not have one.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 14:46 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Leethal) | | | Lee the tuner is a free lancer that tunes bikes after the shop closes. Here is were I am confused. After the refit it was my assumption that a 1700 tune was not put in because it had to a PC5. It only occurred to me later. I realize that the tuner can see which tune is operating. But maybe he assumed that it had a 1700 and maybe it dose, my bad for not asking. I will go back and talk to the refit tech and ask a bunch of questions. As I stated in an earlier post the bike has 104 horses. and when he pulled a few runs in 5th gear torque was around 140 -150, and around 116 in 6th gear. The bike runs really well and as most birds with free flowing exhaust are cursed with pop. So alot of this is my fault because I didn't ask enough questions. I will update everyone as this progresses. It was the PC5 that got Dyno tuned.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 14:46 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Slcharger) | | | Thanks bud, by the way what are the numbers for the stock 1700 tune?
| | Post edited by rayglo on 10 May 2020 - 15:16 |
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 18:35 Post title : Re: popping (Re: rayglo) | | |
rayglo wrote:
Thanks bud, by the way what are the numbers for the stock 1700 tune? |
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Ray.
See the tables below.
 Fuel table for TB_1600
Fuel table for TB_1700
Timing table for TB_1600
Timing table for TB_1700
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 19:28 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Slcharger) | | | Thanks Kim, I will be asking questions when I get there. I have the Android version of tune ecu. Maybe I can find the time in the app
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 10 May 2020 - 23:01 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Slcharger) | | | Kim I played with a PCV and autotune ( twin sensors) for a few years and could not get it right, probably just me lacking knowledge, I never took the time to understand tuneEcu mainly because I didn't have a suitable LT at the time, I still don't really understand all of it. BTW, my tuner prefers TuneEcu over the PCV for the Tbird engines, he reckons it is more flexible and he is a Dynojet tuner.
Ray I had my 1600 dyno tuned two years ago and specifically asked him to give me a smooth throttle response with no popping and that's what I got. I lost about 50-75 kms from my total fuel range but that was to be expected. As you can read below I have short TORS, Meerkat cat bypass, no O2 sensors, no SAI, K&N filter, air box seal removed, seat ducting is stock. I didn't ask for a power tune because there is only so much you can get out of a basically stock engine. The chap that did the dyno is well recognised in my area, I made sure he wasn't just installing a previous tune as he lets customers watch.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2020 - 00:54 Post title : Re: popping (Re: Leethal) | | | I wouldn't mind a fuel loss if I could get rid of the pop. Tuesday will meet with the tech that installed my motor and ask questions. Wednesday I see the tuner. I hope I don't have to get rid of the PC5 and retune but I don't want to live with the pop. Will let you know the outcome
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 11 May 2020 - 02:52 Post title : Re: popping (Re: rayglo) | | | Ray, in fact it is very simple to get rid op the popping.
Below is the fuel table, that I use in my REV2 tune.
The only thing I did was to set the fuel delivery to 0, from 1400 RPM, and upwards, at closed throttle, and it works. No Drawback, no popping.
In your case though, I don't know how the PC5 will react to this.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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